This episode (part 1 of 2) features one of our favorite frequent guests, local DPE and general aviation wizard Pat Brown! Pat also works with AOPA and is an expert in helping rusty pilots return to the sky. We talk to Pat about what exactly constitutes a "rusty pilot" and how you can get back up if you've been out of the game for a while!
So many pilots have let their currency lapse, and are really intimidated about what is takes to get current (and proficient) again. Many pilots who have been on the ground for a long time may find themselves faced with new technology that was not even around when they got their certificate (GPS, ADSB... etc). This podcast is a great place to start if you're looking to get back in the air. Please feel free to SHARE this episode with a fellow pilot who you know wants to get current again!
Clear prop! Number two following twin traffic on 3 mile final. JB using runway 25 on a 4-mile final.
This is Behind the Prop with United Flight Systems owner and licensed pilot, Bobby Doss. and it's co-host: major airline captain Designated Pilot Examiner, Wally Mulhearn. Now let's go behind the prop!
What's up Wally? Hey bobby how are you. I'm great at this week. We are all about the rusty pilot with us again on the show. Two-time guest Pat Brown the Texas You can fly ambassador. Welcome back to the show Pat. Thanks bobby appreciate over three. Pardon me this is number three visit for this is number three your first visit and then the live show and now rusty pilot so Pat has been a friend and I would call him a coworker through through the flight school that I own and recently we had the opportunity to rusty pilot seminar together. We did and I learned a lot as a not so rusty pilot. But someone who doesn't get fly all the time and thought to be a great opportunity to put together a show. Maybe two parts depending on how long this conversation goes to talk about. How do we get a lot of aviators back into the right seat. Left seat if they have been flying in a while, Pat. You do this all the time. What what are some of the things that you would like to share with people that are out there that may have not flown in a year or more. Well you know. I think Obviously I worked for a AOPA so that's going to be the first top of mind thing and the rusty pilot program that we that we offer It we can We do a number of seminars. every month These are webinars right. Now we're not back to doing live things but that would be the the primary first of all decide that you want to get back in the air and then take advantage of the rusty pilots seminar. Because that provides you the minimum that sixty-one dot fifty-six which is the reg- talks about flight reviews. That's the that requires that takes care of takes care of the minimum one hour of ground school that required for For your flight review In reality if you've been out for a while it's probably going to take more than an hour and even even when I’m doing these rusty pilot seminars. Tell people look when you go and hire local flight instructor to fly with you. They're still want to sit down and talk to you a little bit and make sure that you remember all these cool things that we just talked about right so that that would be probably the biggest one right there but they got to make the decision. They want to get back into it. A lot of people come to the flight school. And and I’m sure ask Wally. Hey I want to learn how to fly. I want to get back in. What do I need to do. I think while things have changed. It's really still pretty similar if you learn to fly ten ten years ago twenty years ago not a lot lotta changed you could probably if you flew here ten or twenty years ago you probably still fly the same aircraft you flew in twenty years ago. Well pull up in and you go up push forward you go down. I mean it pretty much. So I have heard this and I actually use it and it could be completely false but I heard the FAA recommends. If you've been out for ten years you probably need ten hours of ground. Ten hours of flying is that a rule of thumb. You believe in or if heard you know. I've heard that for every year you've been out. You need an hour of instruction to get back in. That's not been my personal experience. Agreed either so. I know about you, Wally. Yeah I would say you know it's it's going to be different. Depend on on every person how much how much they've kept up with it. Just because you haven't been in an airplane doesn't mean that maybe you haven't kept up with things reading. There's so much out there especially with the internet but You know they're planning pilot flying. AOPA magazines are my through. Go to resources for learning. What's what's going on the new airplanes and the new technology So I you know. I I’ve got some. I've got a good friend. I go to church with and he's a pilot. He hasn't flown in twenty years. But man he keeps up with it and he comes in. He asks me questions he he's asking me all about the the things on a Cirrus and I’m giving them what I know which is limited. But he's asking me all about the ballistic parachute. Listen this call. Wow man rick. I said you've really clearly still have really. You know a lot about this stuff and and I keep saying. Why don't you go back. get in the air. I I don't know. And I’m just like just do it just do it. Yeah wow that's got to be money and time for sure all the I don't know if it was COVID necessarily or not but the pandemic in general seem to drive a lot of people back to flying. I noticed that I’ve noticed. I do two things in my life. But I played golf and I fly. It seemed like both of those completely got busier with the pandemic. And I definitely felt it at the flight school and I think a lot of people who wanted to get in an aircraft decided to get back in an aircraft or getting one for the first time which was very interesting so if it's not an hour for every year I was out. What are the requirements for flight review. What let's talk about it. If someone's listening they don't know exactly what they have to do to get back to being legal. What what are the requirements for fly. The they're actually really pretty simple. If you look at in fact you can google. This and google is the repository of the entire world. Knowledge is we all know now. you can Google far Sixty-one dot fifty-six. And that's the one that essentially tells you what you have to do. And it's an hour ground minimum an hour ground in an hour in the air and one of the requirements is a review of basic operating rules and regulations. But besides that it's really virtually anything that the returning pilot wants it to be I do some flight. Instruction. Wally and I are both DPE’s as you know, I still do. Some fight instruction and and a lot of that has flight reviews so One of the first questions. I'll ask and Probably the same for while is where. Where do you feel like you're weak What would you like to do. Because if you don't know trust me I’ll have plenty but That's that's really it. It can be really anything that the instructor That the student wants to do I would say anybody listening with a pencil. In your hand you might write down. Advisory circular sixty-one dash ninety-eight d. as in delta talks about fight reviews in more detail than you'll find in the FAR so sixty-one dots fifty-six in the FAR and then adviser circular sixty-one dot ninety-eight d as in delta If you want a little bit more in AOPA actually has also has a piece on that if you just go to
Put flight review or something along those lines. You'll get a circular that we printed as well. There's a lot of pilots of listen. And maybe the show won't appeal to everybody but you say one hour ground one hour flight who who determines when that's done is the if I’m a student. I haven't flown in ten years. I come to you. I said look mister instructor. I only want to do one hour with you. One hour in the plane. Then I want you to let me go. Is that how that works. No let me say first of all the thing about a flight review flight review is not a check ride right. You know a lot of people get a little anxiety when they think of check ride. I mean I do Every nine months at my airline. I have to have a check ride in in You know there's a little anxiety that goes along with that even Where I am in my career but a flight review is what it says It's a flight review. It is not a check ride the CFI. I can give a flight review and You know a. CFI isn't so much trained on how to evaluate so much If the at the end of an hour of ground and the hour flight the instructor deems that you're not ready to go fly solo or take your family wherever He will just not Not sign you off if you would you know. That's a good way of putting it I mean you can't you're not going to fail at. You're not going to get an endorsement in your book. Says flight review failed. You just not going to get the endorsements that says flight review has been completed so it is. It is a review. And you're you're paying that instructor so you're paying for flight. Instruction it should be an instructional flight and then the it could depend for each person. I'm assuming right. Some people may take two hours of flight three hours of ground when our ground two hours of flight. It really just varies by person but the CFI who is performing this instructional review. They're the ones who will ultimately endorse a log book. Which says this flight review has been complete and then that's good for how long twenty-four calendar months so it would kind of reset that clock and then I’m I’m quote unquote legal but I still have all my currency requirements. Just like anyone else. Would if I want to to take passenger do those things yeah cetera. If I haven't seen the regs in quite some time and you may two good references to the fly review stuff. But let's say. I wanted to learn what's changed. Where would I go. Try to test my knowledge before. I may be came to that. Flight reviews their place. I might turn to. If I wanted to look outside AOPA the any books publications things like that that you guys would recommend you want to take Wally. I was. I was waiting for you. Pat okay well I I will jump in. There are Well we. We talked earlier off camera about the king schools They they have Some awesome Videos there's young fella who's Fairly new on the scene fairly new as a relative term named Jason Shappert at an outfit called M as in Mary MZeroA. Mzeroa.com Jason is I don't know probably in his early thirties. But really In enthusiastic support of aviation awesome flight instructor. And he's doing something kind of his version of the king stuff in other words. It's a little bit more Excuse a little younger In his in his participation customer participation base He offers I think a monthly subscription service where you get access to have. I think everything that they have on their website Sporty’s pilot shop. You know you can. You can get so many of this so much of this stuff you can get online now You don't even have to get a CD in the mail. You can just get it online but those are some ways that that someone could begin to figure out was new ADSB for example. We're just we're starting ours. I guess it's our second year now with ADSB If you have if you've been out for a while you ADS what? and so There's also another Website out there called bold method b. o. l. d. method bold method and If you want to test your knowledge Just on guy. I subscribe to it in every week. I get a quiz and. Do their quizzes are not easy. That's exactly tended to be the more difficult outlier questions. Not right but it's not how clouds to be in gulf right. No but But it's it's interesting stuff so I don't always have the time to stop and take one of those quizzes but You know I. I'm not happy with myself. If I don't get one hundred but those those are some those are some I guess. Some sort of quick and dirty Sources that you can run to with your amount of experience. Both have tons of time a fairly young pilot in my pilot at time piloting time when I took a check ride which was just a few years ago my private. I use the PTS. Now there's an ACS is important for these pilots. Understand the difference between those two. Would you point them to the ACS to say hey. This isn't a check ride. But if you can't talk to these things you might struggle. Is that a fair. Is that a fair place to start looking. I I think so I mean.
But if you can't talk to these things you might struggle. Is that a fair. Is that a fair place to start looking ACS stands for airman certification standards. So it's the standards which you Become certified at and that's what that's the document that Pat and I use to create our scenarios. If we will the faa causes plan of action In and it's the document that we use to create what we're going to do on a check ride and what we're going to test and what we're going to evaluate so Yeah I mean. I think that's a great starting point and you know a lot of times. Applicants will tell me well. I read the ACS and I think well the ACS to me is a reference material. It's it's probably not something you're going to sit down and read unless you're trying to put yourself to sleep you can get kind of boring Quite honestly But it's a great reference material if you want to know jeez I haven't done. Steep turns twenty years. What is the standard for a private pilot or a commercial pilot. For Steep turns. And you can go to the ACS and it's going to have a whole bunch of bullet points that are going to say it's going to tell you how to do steep turns but it's going to tell you to the standard. At which your Steep turns should be. And I’m a little bit analytical and I think I would want to reference that if I got out of the game for a long time just to remind myself that I do need to understand whether frontal lines and there's key points in the ACS that I would have to challenge myself to say okay. I don't remember what all this weather man. I probably should go read a little bit of weather stuff or watch a YouTube video or something like that. I mean I think that would guide me to some of these reference materials. That would make it easier for me to get back up to speed depending on how long somebody's been out of the game so to speak You know weaken now self-brief Weather If you go back I don't know how long would you say well. He ten twelve years. Something like that. the only game in town essentially was flight service right and now with aviationweather.gov which basically the NOAA website the The weather service website with Foreflight with Garmin Pilot with wing x with fly Q with all with fly with all of these tablet apps that you can have all of them have features that allow you to self-brief. You can go to aviationweather.gov yourself and download service analysis charts and progs and look in in and winds aloft and constant pressure.
All that stuff is right there at your fingertips and if but if you don't know how to analyze it if if you're reading a brief that says Airmet Sierra along your route of flight. And you don't know what an airmet. Sierra is you could potentially be in for a bad day. Yeah I kid with people around here all the time that the more you become a pilot the more you really become a weather man. I mean I think we all learn a lot. More about weather, winds dew point temperature. All that stuff that helps us be a better. Pilot as I’m sitting here if you got your license certification fifteen years ago the iPhone didn't even exist so it's a very different cockpit and it was fifteen years ago just based on the iPhone or mobile tablets and phones in general right fifteen years ago That might be a little recent but certainly twenty years ago in in panel. Gps's were not much beyond a fantasy. At that point. I remember I was. I was a rusty pilot. I was the quintessential rusty pilot for about ten years. When I came back and got current again in nineteen this would have been nineteen ninety-six thereabouts. Nine hundred ninety-five. Maybe I got current in a warrior and it had a panel mounted I think was a Magellan sky nav. Gps this is not an IFR are certified gps. it was no moving map It basically just kind of showed you the bearing to the station. No magenta lines. No nothing and I looked at that. And I said what in the world is. Gps stand anybody us. Why would anybody use this thing. This is just more crap. I've got to learn how to use in the cockpit and now I fly has dual Garmin 430s which in themselves are old technology and in two screens of technically advanced aircraft. And I never would have seen that coming even even ten years at twelve twenty point I mean maybe the first thing rusty pilots tonight should do is learn about the technology. They all the options. they're going to see very different aircraft from four thirty-two things with glass g one thousand. Two things with tablet mounts. That would make the plane. Even with steam gauges extremely advanced traffic. In and out. I mean if you haven't been in the cockpit and fifteen years you might be shocked. You'll see everyone on your screens nowadays. Almost which does provide a level of comfort and also a level of anxiety so little arrows out. They're all coming right at me. That would maybe overwhelm a rusty pilot. Just because there is so much stuff that they might not want to interject but they do need to embrace it. Because it's here to stay right. It really is valuable Foreflight. You we keep talking about these things and some people might not be aware of them. Four flight is about one hundred dollars a year and you have every sectional every low and route chart every high and route chart every approach plate. Approach played every everything. Yeah in the palm of your hand for a hundred dollars a year remarkable and it really is remarkable. You think about how much information you're getting that's less than ten sectionals and if you want to go from here to probably Colorado you would need to buy ten sectionals. Yeah so foreflight has done amazing things and you mentioned many other of the electronic flight bags that that might be a place for rusty pilots to do some research there amongst all the other things. Yeah I guess with that the FAA is kind of they're still behind. Maybe but they've they've released a lot of things electronic form that you might not have been able to get access to access to before the Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge is just a couple of clicks away all the all the books that we mentioned like the airplane flying handbook the ACS all these faa publications are now available for free on the internet and pdf form. Yeah there's another one actually that I recommend especially when. I'm talking about airspace. There's one call the the air nautical chart users guide. I forget was never is probably for sure but it's one hundred thirteen pages. Maybe now when. I the first when I downloaded was eighty-one but now I think it's up to one hundred and thirteen. Maybe a hundred and thirty. I forget the exact number but this every symbol for IFR or VFR every symbol that has ever existed for a printed chart is in that book.
And it's free and we saw the reprints here and it's probably the most purchase book here because it is a wealth of information One that I refer to that kind of gets it gets kind of kicked to the curb out of other. Books is a weight and balance handbook. Right is it seems to be a subsection of a of a part of a book but it really is its own book and it teaches all the idiosyncrasies of weight and balance and tips and tricks on how to calculate that really understanding Things that Wally and I talk all the time on the value of apps. aft- load or own. You know how to load the aircraft for the best economy flight. And there's a risk management handbook out there. Lots of really good things that the FAA has put together that you can get access to for free and and probably helped get yourself up to be pretty quick. I think the thing to do though is to really just to encourage those people that have been out of it for a while is to take that first step to get back into it And the first step is to come to a flight school. Find yourself a flight school. Get yourself a good. Cfi interview the CFI. You're going to be sitting next to him or her for some number of hours across the table from you probably ought to like them So find yourself a good. CFI and Because right now you in in some respects you don't know what you don't know because there have been some changes but at the same time steep turns are still forty-five-degree banks and You know is still plus or minus ten degrees. Plus or minus ten knots and plus or minus one hundred feet and a lot of that stuff really has stayed the same on the technology in I think is probably a fair general statement is the technology is what's changed but found Find a school that still flies around airplanes and just get back into it and get those muscle memory skills back again. Because they're they're just back there in the back side of the lizards section of your brain. You got to bring them back up front earlier. We were talking about you. Know how long does it take to get this flight review accomplished. Or how hard is it to get back in the seat and fly the aircraft more often than not. I hear people in the hallway talking about have flown in eleven years. And I got back in almost always says. I didn't touch the controls like the flying parts. Not the hard part I. I wasn't flying fifteen years ago. But I would think the congestion of general aviation is different in major metropolitan areas like Houston might be very different in the outlying suburbs and smaller towns around the united states. But you know just the flexibility of being able to fly. The congestion would be quite shocking to me. If I hadn't been in this for some time right But then again the readily available this of this whole thing like I can go rent a plane now and jump in and fly and probably do that at twenty places here in just a short drive from where we're sitting right now right and you know another thing. That just came to mind as you were mentioning that the congestion and whatnot and to be sure. That's an issue but If you want to get your ear. Fine-tuned back to ATC in in hearing what they have to say. You can always go to atc live. That's an inter- it's a live feed and you can choose from any number of control towers around the country I think hooks is on there. This go to atc live and just listen for a while. And listen to the common phraseology. This us because you hear the same thing over and over and over and over and over again and sometimes there's a variation on the theme but essentially you hear the same things over and over and over again whole short you know Cleared the land cleared for the option. I mean these. These things are very common. Yeah that's a great tip and one that I’ve been hearing lately because I’ve stumbled on it. There's an app out there for any device. I think called plain English, plane. So if you weren’t strong with radios. I think it's a great simulator. That will help you become better with the radios that will get you to get you back up to speed as it relates to being in the cockpit and using those radio talk about it a lot around the school and I’m sure you do all time pat can we maybe wrap up this part with the value of joining the and then we'll come back to you and maybe we'll talk through all the execution things that we think people should do is a relates to getting through a rusty pilot seminar cetera. But I think people think the AOPA is this big organization that what am I getting for my sixty-five seventy-five dollars a year that I’m spending and how do you. How do you translate that into value for the members of the AOPA well. The aircraft owners and pilots association is the largest GA centric. I guess group Out there four hundred thousand. Some odd members The annual us. Seventy-nine dollars occasionally. I think we run some specials per for seventy-nine dollars. Basically what you're getting is an organization dedicated to preserving our rights and privileges in the air. there is strength in numbers. I mean that's the bottom line. A post nine eleven when when national airspace system was. Shut down AOPA Actually had a person in the room When some of these decisions were being made. And I’m fully convinced that we wouldn't have gotten back in the air as quickly as we did Post nine eleven When when ATC was being threatened with privatization about three years ago AOPA in some of the other alphabet soup organizations the EAA and others mobilized our membership and we were able to beat back privatization. And if you want to see an example of privatization and what they can do to general aviation just look no further Europe It is incredibly expensive so expensive that that people come over here for flight training The air safety institute is a part of the organization. And if you want to and it's free for even for nonmembers. It's free but if you want to look at at For example that serious crash that would at hobby two or three years ago We have some extremely good videographers that do safety related videos. you see him Wally. I know you've seen as well. These are superb. Superb training videos Rusty pilot we talked about him and inject their them. You posted a video this week on the impossible turn. We talk a lot about it. A lot as a training and I think I think very differently about the impossible. Turn now than. I did before because I watched that air institute video. It's a possible turn but the metrics that may be in your situation but yeah very interesting video and Yeah can't recommend those enough either. So you know I mean I could go on and on and we don't have enough time and I don't want to make this a paid political advertisement but I will say this every organization out there whether it's whether it's a nonprofit or whether it's just a regular corporation you know they have their pluses and minuses. AOPA is certainly not a perfect organization. But I will tell you you won't find any organization that's more dedicated to protecting our rights and our privileges as pilots. And I’m a paying member. I worked for the organization. I'm a paying member. And I donate a fair amount of money every year to the political action committee That ought to say something. Because I could get a free membership and I pay for I pay part of it is. You are supporting the people that work at the organization. Obviously the it takes money to do anything. Yes but it's a small amount of money at the way. I try to translate it as I do. I do three or four things every year. I I love the magazine. It's still my go-to. I like to get it in print every month because I like to it in my hands and I flip through and I’ve got a box full of all previous articles so the magazine's a good one. Let's whatever you chalk that up to make a phone call at least every other year. When I give my medical it just makes sure. Nothing's changed the the medical advisory phone number to help make sure nothing's changed. If I was taking an allergy medicine or something I would call and ask make sure. That's an invaluable resource in my opinion because yeah it could prevent a lot of harm to people. Yeah. I actually should have mentioned that as well. You're talking about the pilot information center and that those folks there if they don't know the answer off the top of their heads they'll be able to find it more than likely while you're still on the phone with them and if they don't if they can't find it they'll find somebody that does know and they'll call you back or their reproach your they'll reply to your email. I use them all the time. I don't know everything and there's some sometimes you can get into a ragged. it's just kind of were worded. Really weird you know. Go figure and Frankly I I will oftentimes call them up and say is there. Is there an interpretation somewhere because the faa has got a lot of interpretations finding them. Sometimes it's difficult. I'll call them up and see. Is there an interpretation. You know of this particular reg. Oh yeah that's whatever and here's the link. So that's an invaluable service. That alone to me is worth the seventy-nine bucks a year. No question and then. I think there's obviously people like you. That are doing things great. In local markets. I think the rusty pilot seminars their freedom members join probably would get the value out of that one seminar for the year for sure and membership dollars. Don't pay for that. This is all donations. These are dues grants that we get from places like the J foundation their corporate partnerships for example with Sporty’s That allow us to do so many things that we couldn't do based on seventy-nine dollars a year so somebody that's you know that's got a one of those types of memberships is really getting way. More than just seventy-nine dollars’ worth of value out of it awesome so as we wrap part one goes out and join the AOPA and start a real some of those benefits and we'll have part. Two shortly is always stay behind the prop
Thanks for listening. Thanks for checking out the Behind The Prop podcast. be sure to click subscribe and check us out online at BehindTheProp.com behind the prop is recorded in Houston, Texas. Show creator and host is Bobby Doss. Co-host is Wally Mulhearn. This show is for entertainment purposes Only. and not meant to replace actual flight instruction. Thanks for listening and remember: fly safe!